Jazz Monthly.com Interview with erin davis and vince wilburn jr.

“Jazz Monthly Feature Interview” Miles Davis
A Son's Perspective ERIN DAVIS. Also Nephew VINCE WILBURN JR

Smitty: I have two very special guests joining me here at JazzMonthly.com. They are a part of a fantastic project. It is a cross-cultural celebration of the music of Miles Davis along with some of India’s foremost musicians collaborating with the legendary musicians who comprised the various Miles Davis bands over the years. Here to talk about this great project and the legendary Miles Davis, please welcome the son of Miles Davis, Erin [Davis] and Mile’s nephew, Vince [Wilburn, Jr.] Erin, Vince, how ya doing? Welcome to Jazz Monthly!

Erin Davis (ED): Thank you.

Vince Wilburn, Jr. (VW): Yes, thank you for having us.

Smitty: You are so welcome! All right. Well, I must say that when I listened to this project, a lot of memories came back from listening to Miles over the years and I really got into what a fantastic experience and journey this must have been over 11 months to do this great project. So talk about your contributions, just initially, to this great project. Erin?

ED: Actually, I didn’t work on this project, but Vince did. Yeah, but you know what, Smitty? What we do is we bounce ideas off each other so, I mean, I did—I gotta get my cousin’s approval [Vince laughs] because I love him and I like his input on things that we do together or separately, you know?

Smitty: Yeah, absolutely.

VW: So I would take things over—we call them advances—and lay it on him, but it was Bob Belden’s baby and what he did, he went back and researched. There was a tabla player named Badal Roy who played with Uncle Miles and that’s how they started—I guess that piqued their curiosity about Indian musicians. There are people all over the world who admire Uncle Miles and love his music, so I guess they got the group of Indian musicians together and had these interpretations of different songs, and Bob asked me would I be interested in playing on some of the tracks and he picked “Jean- Pierre” and “Great Expectations” for me to play on and Ndugu [Chancler] played on a couple of things and Jimmy Cobb and Lenny White.

Smitty: Yeah, Marcus Miller…

VW: Marcus. Marcus played the bass clarinet on “Great Expectations.”

Smitty: Yes, a fantastic track…

VW: Adam Holzman, a bunch of dudes. Ron Carter, and Ranjit Barot.

ED: Chick Corea, Pete Cosey.

VW: Yeah. Benny Rietveld.

Smitty: Yeah.

VW: Mike Stern, Wallace Roney, Dave Liebman, Bobby Irving, [John] McLaughlin.

ED: It’s actually everybody who’s still around, basically.

Smitty: That played with him.

VW: Yeah.

Smitty: Yeah, exactly. Vince, talk to me about when you heard the music of the Indian musicians, what did that invoke in you initially when you started to lay down your work with this music?

VW: Oh, man, the actual two tracks were already recorded and it was sort of like the glue to hold it down for “Jean-Pierre” because there was Rangit Barot and myself, and then for “Great Expectations” I just researched the original “Great Expectations” track and went in and did it with that kind of a mindset.

Smitty: Did that create something different in your approach to this music? Obviously it was different than your normal approach to music. Did this create something totally different for you as far as your approach to music?

VW: I mean, any time—I hope I’m speaking for Erin too—any time we approach—we call him The Chief, you know, that’s Erin’s dad or Uncle Miles—we’ve gone into the vault and checked out music, like tapes, because he never stopped the tape so he had reels and reels of tracks. I mean, it just opens your mind up because I think Uncle Miles always thought so far ahead, right Erin?

ED: Yeah, yeah.

VW: So it leaves like an open canvas, man, to just create if your mind is open enough on your particular instrument. If you keep that mind open like he did and always want to evolve and create then you can go for it.

Smitty: Yeah, absolutely. Erin, your dad has just created such a force in music even down to this day. I can’t tell you how many people talk to me about Miles, talk to me about how he influenced them and maybe it was a spoken word, maybe one sentence to them in passing, and they have kept that with them all these years and continue to…

ED: Oh yeah, yeah. Like an anecdote, yeah.

Smitty: Yeah, you know? Talk to me about the influence that he had on you as a boy, as a man, and down to today as far as your interactions and your relationship with him.

ED: Well, I tell ya, I was checking out a new My Space page that went up for the Miles From India project, and there was an interview from 60 Minutes that was done in the 80s, I think, and I watched it again and I was watching him speak and I was like it just brought back so many memories of how I remember him and how I perceive things, and the way he speaks about things is with a clear mind and I love the way he was able to just say whatever was on his mind, doesn’t matter to who it was. It could’ve been anybody, right Vince?

VW: Oh yeah.

ED: It could’ve been the President of the United States, it could’ve been anyone, anyone in the world, anyone from 60 Minutes too—I watched his interview he did with Bryant Gumbel on the Today Show. What I learned from him aside from musical things, which I still learn every day, is what it means to carry yourself and to have self-respect, first of all. And make sure that everything you do is done at a certain level, not to leave anything out there, no half stepping, no shucking and jiving.

VW: Yeah, honesty and getting to it.

ED: When I watch these interviews I’m constantly reminded, you know, he always talked about how people would say, give reasons—his teachers give reasons why people play the blues, black people from the Midwest, the South, and he said “My father’s wealthy and my mother’s beautiful and I can play the blues. I don’t have any….” He grew up a happy child but he could still play the blues.

VW: You don’t have to be downtrodden and, you know, oh, woe is me.

ED: And sad.

Smitty: (Laughs). So true.

VW: It’s about being a musician and having feeling and soul and interpretation in your music.

Smitty: Yeah, and I think you both hit it straight on because when you listen to Miles, not only his musicianship, but like you said, the way he spoke, he was always so profound in every word, every syllable was so profound, and there was no fluff.

VW: No, no, no.

ED: No time for that.

Smitty: Yeah, there was no chaser. It was like this is it, this is how it is. And I remember listening to Herbie Hancock speak of Miles and he said Miles was all about music. He wanted you to be working on music but no junk. You’ve got to be legitimately working on some great music and really getting into it. And I thought that was so unique when he said that because you don’t hear that much, today. It’s like “Well, I got a couple of tracks over here” or “I’ve got a couple of demos.” But Miles was about what’s your music about? What’s your music saying? What is it bringing to me? Does it have substance? And I thought that was so, I guess we should say, rare today.

VW: It definitely rubbed off on us, man. That’s how we approach our separate projects and collectively too, you know?

ED: Yeah.

VW: I mean, when Erin and I go into the vault, man, it’s no nonsense because it’s sacred. It’s just no time to B.S. I mean, we tear up, man, our jaws drop, I mean, it’s like hey man, this is sacred, this is the vault, this is what it’s about, you know?

Smitty: Yeah, very serious.

ED: And what you’re looking at is all these years and years and sessions of what’s work, you know? Of creative output. Work, you know? And it’s beautiful. It’s inspiring, it’s really inspiring.

VW: It sure is.

Smitty: Well, everything about him was inspirational. I saw a tape not long ago, some footage, and I really analyzed it to the letter, and with Miles everything was on time.

VW: (Laughs)

Smitty: I mean, you know what I’m saying?

VW: Hey man, I lived with Erin and my uncle, right? And, man, I mean, this is a man who used to change clothes six times, five-six times a day.

ED: (Laughs)

VW: And just stay clean and just stay on his axe and just have his trumpet by him and his paint and his paint brush and his canvas, and he could cook his butt off, man.

Smitty: (Laughs)

VW: I mean, anything he set his mind to do he could do, had the baddest cars, save your money, invest your money, practice, don’t be complacent. I mean, it just rubbed off on me and Erin, that’s his dad, so Erin’s got it all in his blood so, I mean, it was heavy, man, heavy, heavy. And I’m not just saying that because I’m related to him, but it couldn’t help but rub off. It rubbed off for Herbie and Marcus and Jack and all the cats who played with him.

Smitty: Absolutely. You mentioned clothes. When I watched that tape, I said “You know, every time I’ve seen him, he is clean to the letter.”

VW: It was no joke.

Smitty: And there’s no wrinkles.

VW: Oh yes.

ED: (Laughs)

Smitty: And the buttons are lined up.

VW: Yeah, that’s no joke. I mean, I’m not talking about stage clothes; I’m talking about just sitting with him during the day in the house. Well, the stage is a whole ‘nother, you know what I mean?

Smitty: Another level, huh?

VW: Right. I mean, I’m talking about just staying in the house with him during the day.

Smitty: Man, that’s amazing.

VW: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Smitty: But what an example that was for you two. It was a consistent example, which I think now we’ve lost that.

VW: We need more of it, man.

Smitty: Exactly, because when you have a consistent example, that says this is real.

VW: Yeah, yeah.

Smitty: And this is about your life. This is not about putting on this show now and then later on you’re something totally different. This is who you are 24/7.

VW: That’s right, right.

Smitty: And we don’t have that sort of backbone in society today, as you mentioned, which I think is just—it’s sterling of him to lead by example the way he did because you cats know how to bring it, man.

VW: We’re just hanging on, bro. (Laughs)

Smitty: Yes indeed. But what a force that is for you, though. Because let’s face it, we live in a society today where there’s always gonna be ups and downs and bumps and bruises, but when you have the fortitude and the heritage to brace yourself for that and deal with it properly, you can’t put a price on that.

VW: Yeah, no, no, not at all.

Smitty: Absolutely.

VW: I mean, it was just something that when you’re with him and when we were with him, it was like, well, he’s supposed to change clothes six times a day, he’s supposed to tell us what to play, he’s supposed to have the baddest of whatever it was—you know what I mean? He could cook his butt off. That’s Miles, you know what I mean? But he was still Uncle Miles and if I could say it for Erin, his dad, you know what I mean? And so he made us step our lives up.

Smitty: Exactly. That’s totally inspirational.

VW: He was the role model to make us stronger. Erin’s got a daughter now and I was over at his house the other day and I see that, how proud he is of his daughter. I mean, it’s just a natural progression of life when you have somebody who has the standards and raises the bar that high. You want to excel to be the best. When I sit down at the drums, I wanna play like it’s my last time playing. Or have something to say, just don’t fluff, don’t fluff off.

Smitty: Yeah, exactly.

VW: When we wake up, man, that’s what we have to do, approach life that way and make it count.

Smitty: Can you imagine if every parent had that kind of heart and soul today.

VW: Man, please.

ED: (Laughs)

Smitty: We would have a different society, you know?

VW: Oh, definitely.

Smitty: So tell me something. At what point, or did you ever at any point, say to yourselves individually or collectively, “You know, he’s a legend”?

ED: Well, I think that was more evident—well, Vince and I both played in the band. Vince played for two or three years and I played for a year, and you realize that more when you’re working on music with him or you’re on stage with him and you see how the crowd reacts. Even though he was always accused of turning his back to the crowd.

ED: But we’ve seen him captivate a crowd and hold their attention.

VW: Yeah.

ED: And have them on the edge of their seats with their eyes glistening and that’s when you really start to realize, wow, this is like the master class here.

Smitty: (Laughs)

VW: Well, I’ll tell you something. Like in rehearsals, like when he used to say “Try this,” and the band members would look at each other but never to him and say “Does he really want us to do this?” But the night of the concert or the next day, man, it’s like he was clairvoyant, like he knew it was gonna happen, he knew what to tell us to play, and if we execute it, it’s like butter, you know?

Smitty: Oh yeah. (Laughs)

VW: He always knew where to take it when I didn’t know or when band members didn’t know, and that’s when I knew. I was like, oh, wait a minute, man, this is Amazing Kreskin.

ED: (Laughs)

Smitty: But isn’t it kinda cool, though, that when he had that kind of track of record that each time he asked you to play something and you see the result, at some point there’s no question anymore. It’s like, okay, Miles said…

VW: I never questioned it. It’s just that if he said it, it never failed, you know what I mean? I mean, it’s like how does he know?

Smitty: (Laughs)

VW: I mean, that’s who he is, you know what I mean? So he knew.

ED: Yeah.

VW: You know what I’m trying to say?

Smitty: Exactly, yeah.

VW: If a cat says “Okay, I want you to shoot this trumpet from 30 feet, but turn your wrist around just a little bit,” you know what I mean? You’re like “Man, what are you talking about?” Then the game started and you’d hit 50-60 points like Jordan, like MJ or something. It’s like okay, okay, I get it.

ED: (Laughs)

Smitty: Exactly.

VW: So night after night after night he would mesmerize these audiences all over the world, and that’s when I knew—I mean, that’s when I knew personally and I’m like, okay.

Smitty: It’s interesting you say that because not only was he performing here in the U.S. and sometimes we can sort of interpret or understand how a U.S. audience or an American audience might react.

VW: Mm-hmm.

Smitty: But when you’re in a totally different culture and he says “All right, Vince, I want you to do this and this and this,” and it turns out exactly or even beyond what you ever dreamed, that’s profound, man.

VW: That’s right.

ED: Yeah.

VW: Yeah, yeah.

ED: And I think he enjoyed playing in Europe and Japan almost more than playing in the U.S. because of the acceptance of the crowds to hear new things. They didn’t wanna hear “Kind of Blue” all the time; they wanted to hear whatever he was working on, anything. He would come out and play 12 new tracks that nobody heard of and they would’ve just sat there riveted.

Smitty: Wow. Well, I can understand how anyone would be riveted because, man, how do you top Miles on that horn?

VW: (Laughs)

Smitty: You know what I mean? I mean, how? I mean, you could be from another planet and totally get it and just be on the edge of your seat, you know?

VW: Yeah, yeah.

Smitty: And evidence of that is now. I mean, we can’t sit here collectively and count how many tributes there have been to his music or to one song or to one album or the whole collection. I mean, it’s beyond our imagination, things that we probably haven’t heard yet, you know?

VW: Yeah, yeah. Dig this: Erin and I are working on a hip hop album, right?

Smitty: Uh-huh.

VW: Not one hip hop artist that we’ve contacted said no.

Smitty: (Laughs)

VW: I mean, nobody said “Well, hey man, have your lawyer call my lawyer” or none of that. Everybody was like “Man, Miles? I’m down.” Right, Erin?

ED: That’s right, that’s right.

VW: And, I mean, I’m talking about the hip hop community.

Smitty: Yeah.

VW: Young guys so, I mean, what does that tell you?

Smitty: That’s respect.

VW: You know what I mean?

Smitty: Yes indeed.

VW: And he’s been gone since ’91, September of ’91.

Smitty: Yeah.

VW: But still is his legacy long after we’re gone, man.

Smitty: Oh, no doubt, no doubt, my friend. Well, I must say, man, going back to the music, it’s funny you mention music, because the memories and just the whole feeling of him being in the room when you’re listening to these tracks is amazing, you know?

VW: Yeah, yeah.

Smitty: It really conjures up all of that, and I want to just congratulate all of the musicians that you mentioned previously that are on this project. All of them did a standout, stellar job with their interpretations.

VW: They’re great players.

Smitty: Yeah, man, unbelievable.

ED: It was great to see the turnout of guys who wanted to play on it.

Smitty: Yes, unbelievable. Man, I mean, that list is just…

VW: It’s from the Miles Davis Academy. (All laugh.) Miles Davis College.

Smitty: Yeah, that’s very well put.

VW: Right? Right? All the students.

Smitty: Would you liken him to a professor?

VW: Man…

ED: Well, Vince likens being on stage with him as the master class, for sure.

VW: Yeah, I mean, it’s like what are you gonna do after Miles?

ED: (Laughs)

VW: You can have your own group or your own band. I mean, he stayed on Erin to be a better musician, stayed on me to be a better musician, but we got it now. I mean, we got it then, but we really get it now.

Smitty: And that’s the way it goes, I think, sometimes as young adults or even younger were taught so much and we were taking it in, but sometimes we don’t really break it down until months later, and the appreciation, I think, is much greater then too.

ED: Absolutely.

VW: I mean, not to say we didn’t appreciate it then, but I agree with you, but now, there’s not a day that goes by that I’m like thinking about something that he said to Erin or I heard him say to Erin or he said to me and I’m like, wow, I dig that.

Smitty: Yeah.

VW: And he’s still coming at us, he’s still talking to us.

Smitty: Let me ask you both, if you both can answer separately, if there’s one thing or more that he taught you that you would want to share with every musician in the world, what would it be?

ED: Well, it would really just be about knowing your instrument and being comfortable with it and really being an individual and not trying to be someone else or sound like someone else. He had guys coming in the band and they would think that he wanted them to sound like Trane or like Bird or something or Tony Williams or Herbie, and really he was just after something individual and he would have a sense about somebody, so he would have them come down, play with the band, go on the road, then after a few shows he would say “Man, you gotta just—I just wanna hear what you can tell me. I just wanna hear what you can play. I don’t wanna hear what others have played. I already heard that.” He didn’t look back on that kind of stuff.

Smitty: So the individuality of bringing out who you are…

ED: It’s actually very hard to be an individual in music. You always kind of harken back to your influences.

Smitty: Right.

ED: But that’s the one thing I would tell any musician. Just be yourself and the rest will come. It might take 10, 20 years, but it’s gonna come eventually.

Smitty: Yeah, and play from your heart, yeah.

VW: I think create your own voice and when you sit at your instrument, be it in the studio or at home or on stage, just make it count. Make every note mean something.

ED: Even if you’re just playing chords or just laying a groove down. Make sure you’re doing it right.

Smitty: (Laughs)

VW: Make it count because, man, when we went on stage, it was business. When that curtain went up, when the stage turned around or whatever, it was all business, bro.

Smitty: Yeah, I totally dig it.

VW: There was no joking, no shucking and jiving. I mean, even in rehearsals, it was business. That man was serious about his craft, he listened to tapes every night, concert tapes, he would critique each musician every night.

Smitty: Wow.

VW: And that’s what he was about.

Smitty: And look at what we have today, you know?

VW: Hey, the proof’s in the pudding.

ED: (Laughs)

Smitty: Yes. So now, tell me, you mentioned something about a hip hop project. What else are you cats exploring right now musically? Just anything from live performances to just spinning records. What are you cats working on other than the hip hop thing?

ED: Well, there are some Miles From India shows coming up, right Vince?

VW: Yes, three of them so far: San Francisco, L.A. and New York. Erin and I talk—we don’t want to let it all out of the bag, but Erin and I have a surprise. We’ve got a bunch of tapes to go through. (All laugh.) We’ve got some big surprises, but we’re gonna come back to you and talk to you about that at a later date.

Smitty: Oh that’ll be cool.

VW: We’ve got a movie coming out. Don Cheadle’s gonna play Miles.

Smitty: Really?

VW: Yeah, he’s gonna direct and star in it, and that’s in the works. Don signed on, so…

Smitty: Wow.

VW: So we’ve got the “Kind of Blue” 19, Fiftieth Anniversary. So it’s the 50th anniversary of “Kind of Blue.” We’re gonna release a trumpet case with all the box sets that you can insert inside the trumpet case for the fans.

Smitty: Oh wow. Nice!

VW: There’s a lot going on. There’s a lot of music left.

Smitty: Yes indeed.

VW: Erin and I are just trying to figure it out.

ED: Yeah.

Smitty: That’s exciting. Now, the Miles From India project was released in April, right?

VW: Yes, April 15th.

Smitty: Very cool. And you can get it just about anywhere you can buy music, so…

ED: Yeah.

VW: Mm-hmm. iTunes too. You can download it. Buy it and download it.

Smitty: Oh, very cool. I’m still old school. I love the CD and I love the artwork and all that comes with that whole experience of listening to the music and reading the liner notes. And let me tell ya, speaking of liner notes, this is heavy duty, this is heavy liner work.

ED/VW: (Both laugh)

Smitty: You know what I’m saying?

ED: Well, if Bob Belden’s involved, it’s gonna be thorough liner notes.

Smitty: Yeah, man, Bob expressed himself well.

VW: Oh yeah.

ED: Well, that’s what Bob does best, by the way. (All laugh.) He’s an authority. B.B.

VW: I call him B.B.

Smitty: Yeah, I’m calling him “deep” because…

VW: He knows about Miles, man. He loves Miles.

Smitty: Yeah, man, and it was like reading a story and a biography all in one, and he gave you sort of like a play-by-play in India and he talked about how he and Louiz Banks, Yusuf Gandhi developing the form. It was like a construction project where they had the form and then the musicians came in and they started with the foundation and Chick Corea came in and did his thing, and I was just so into that, and listening to the music at the same time, I’m in another world, you know?

VW: I can dig that.

Smitty: And it was so cool. But there was something he said, speaking of the liner notes, that I thought was really amazing. When he talked about working with Wallace and those cats and then working with these great musicians in India, he mentioned how they don’t teach jazz in the public school system.

VW: Mm-hmm.

Smitty: They happen to love this music and it’s a family affair. One example was flautist Rakesh Chaurasia, who is from a family of flautists. And Bob cited many more examples in the liner notes. And they really approached their craft the way Miles approached his music.

VW: Mm-hmm.

Smitty: Which I thought, well, no wonder these great players are on this project. Miles gravitated to those that were as profound and dedicated and committed as he was, and that’s how he was able to identify with these great musicians.

VW: Mm-hmm.

Smitty: So I thought that was a beautiful thing.

VW: Yeah, yeah.

Smitty: Absolutely. So when we talk about influence, Miles influence, like you were mentioning earlier, Vince. Miles’s, his influence is worldwide.

ED: Absolutely.

Smitty: It’s not this influence of ten artists that live in Los Angeles.

VW: (Laughs.) No, it’s global.

Smitty: Yeah, it’s a global influence. And how many musicians can say that?

VW: Yeah, it’s true.

Smitty: And that’s why I think this project, this two-disc project of Miles From India, it’s deeper than the music itself, and how do you get deeper? But it is, you know?

VW: Yeah.

Smitty: It really is. I’m sounding like Bob Belden now. (All laugh.)

VW: No, man, we all love him, you know?

Smitty: Absolutely.

VW: It’s our love for The Chief.

Smitty: Yes indeed, and there was something else here that I thought was something, the approach, that I thought was just beautiful when Bob was talking about when the musicians were coming into the studio to play, he said they were using improvisation as a composition tool. And I’m saying, you know, I don’t know if I’ve heard it put quite that way before, but how beautiful. Because then you’re capturing the true essence of the music when you approach it that way.

VW: Mm-hmm.

Smitty: So not only is Bob a man of many words, but I love his abilities and his knowledge and approach too.

VW: Mm-hmm.

ED: Yeah.

Smitty: Absolutely, and in fact, when I reflect on this project and Miles’ decades of beautiful music, I wish I could roll the credits for those that contributed to this project because it is magnificent.

VW: Yeah, it’s a great piece of music.

Smitty: Yes indeed, and I want to thank you Erin and Vince for not only being in the same family and being related to Miles, but you two had to have the forethought to listen and to want to learn and to be a dry sponge looking for water of knowledge of music, and even to this day, Miles is not with us, but it could be very easy to say “Well, I’m gonna do it my way.”

ED/VW: (Both laugh)

Smitty: You know what I mean?

VW: Yeah.

Smitty: I mean, how many people would say “Well, he’s not here so now it’s our time.”

VW: Hey, man, I think we’re still learning and I think he’s still guiding us, you know what I mean?

ED: Yeah.

Smitty: And I just want to applaud you two for keeping that legacy so strong by your approach to music and your approach to life as well.

VW: Cool, thanks.

ED: Thank you, Smitty.

Smitty: Yes indeed. Well, hey, congratulations on this project, my friends, and I’m looking forward to some of the other great things that are coming in the next few weeks and months, and I hope we can get back together and talk about some of those things and just do some hang time the next time I come out.

VW: Definitely. Let’s do it.

Smitty: All right, we’ve been talking with Erin Davis and Vince Wilburn, Jr. Thank you so much, both of you, for sharing this wonderful time to talk about the ultimate legend in music, Miles Davis, and this wonderful project that is truly reflective of the creative man he was in making great music. Thank you both and best of everything and have a great 2008 and beyond, my friends.

ED: Thank you, Smitty.

VW: Thank you.

Baldwin “Smitty” Smith

For More Information Visit www.milesdavis.com and www.myspace.com/milesdavis